Hopefully there’ll be a third expansion for Relic’s largely (but not solely) fantastigood Dawn of War II, and the usual clutch of new factions and units, but in the meantime a lone Tau unit has snuck into the current version of the game. Specifically, into the Last Stand survival co-op mode, wherein you pick a suitably 40Kian hero and attempt to survive as long as you can.
Controlling the suitably battlesuited Tau Commander in Last Stand will require a small payment of additional money – someone should totally invent a word to describe that – but is available in both the full version of DOW2: Retribution (but not just the base game, as far as I can ascertain) and the cheapy Last Standalone spin-off. Due out at the end of October, and in-action in moving pixel-based form below.
Oh – and the update will also involve purchasable “Imperial Guard Death Korps of Krieg multiplayer chapter pack, and a Chaos Word Bearers multiplayer chapter pack.” Man, that has been canny way of convincing the not insubstantial 40K fanbase to pony up a little more cash.
Is Dawn of War 2 any good? |
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Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot | Single player dawn of war 2 was superior in my opinion in every way..multiplayer I prefer the larger battles of the original..dawn of war 2 tends to focus too much on annoyance tactics and harrassment, whereas a larger encounter in dawn of war was truly something to behold..I also liked the balance of races and troop/army diversity more (tau, necrons etc, it was the most varied rts ever) | |
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge |
It has to. The AI in most strategy games on Hard just produces faster and/or more stuff since the AI itself is so shoddy.
I don't think the number of factions is a problem, since each is very fleshed out and almost all their units are viable. Plus, the commanders are a big deal. The map variety isn't great though, and the modding community for DoW2 never really got off the ground because it launched on Games for Windows Live, which made it very hard to mod. Retribution solved some of this, but it was too late for the modding community to latch on to. The DoW1 AI is terrible too though. I can't think of many RTS games with good AI, but I'll admit most are better than DoW2's. God, I wish there was still a multiplayer community for that game. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/09 05:39:41 | ||
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets | Get the second game, far better. | |
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut |
http://www.moddb.com/mods/dawn-of-war-2-retribution-popcap http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?259230-Dawn-of-war-2-Retribution-Popcap-999 You can also mod it via config files, there are a few variables like unit tax worth experimenting with. I wasn't too fond of vanilla DoW 2, felt much too small. With 999 it's a different game, have to say I need to fight at least 2 expert AI at once and never repair my base to get a challenge now, I'm good at it though. AI is not suited for huge battles so it often sits in spot for too long with huge force, or it spares your base after killing all your units. Get on its nerves though taking too much requsition points, it will make you suffer, also the initial phase of the game is ussualy very intense. Not to mention those huge battles are one of best sights you can see in video games. Btw if you have nVidia gpu, don't forget to force antialiasing + transparency antialiasing - the ingame option is crap. Btw 2 I'm happy that base building is gone, I prefer to focus on fighting. Base building is a distraction and feels artificial in small scale RTSs for me. | |
How to activate the obd in car. This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/09 07:40:49 From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its 'feature' list was first confirmed:
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Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Decrepit Dakkanaut | So, Dawn of War 2 (from what I've seen of other people playing it, I've only played a little bit myself), is the 'better' game, by means of game design. It had better graphics, better sound, a more in-depth strategy, was better balanced and had overall better fundamentals. The end result, though, was a boring game. DoW 1 had way more faults, but it was always a blast and a half to play. I mean, anyone who has played the Civilization computer games over the years knows what I'm talking about. Civ III was flat, shallow, imbalanced and limited. Civ V has the perfect combat system, an ingenious way of doing governance and a smart AI for handling a lot of the fiddly stuff automatically. That said, Civ V always bores me to tears for the first two hours - time that I have to put up with to get to the good part. Civ III, I boot it up, and in 15 minutes I'm conquering the world with massive hordes of horsemen. I suppose I didn't give DoW2 much time, so perhaps it's better than I think, but I always got the impression that they were trying so hard to make a good game that they forgot to make a fun game. | |
Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain. Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce. Read 'The Geomides Affair', now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts! | ||
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Nasty Nob | The original Dawn of War was way better. PS..see Firestorm over Kronus mod for Dawn of War 1. | |
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die. Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. | ||
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller | I for one love DoW2, the single player campaigns are full of replay, especially when you decided to play a faction in a (pick your favorite 40k army) style. Like my Blood Angel game, where all my units were assault marines of various styles, and if the unit used anyhting other then a pistol type weapon I didn't purchase it. Had a blast for sure. And when all is said and done, DoW2 hs the Last Stand sub-game. it's fun and interesting. Challanging for sure. | |
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Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge | I don't see why everyone see's the original Dow as better than Dow2? Don't get me wrong, Dawn of war and its expansions were awesome games, they really were, but Dawn of war 2 I reckon is better in almost every way. Its a very different experience from Dow in that things are a lot smaller, but I think that in a strange way, having a small and highly customizable force was more fun than having a horde of an army (strange coming from an IG player such as myself). What I particularly think was much better was the actual storyline and the storylines of Chaos Rising and Retribution were equally cool. They fitted (for the most part) within the established world of 40k. What you should do is just get it and play it? we can all speak for hours about our opinions on the game, but really it would make more sense to play it and make up your own opinion on it? Goodluck man and hope you enjoy it if you do give it a shot. | |
1500 Pts - Dravone 54th 'Royals' Infantry Regiment 'We have been given our crusade, my sons.. the Sabbat Worlds!' Warmaster Slaydo at the onset of the Sabbat World Crusade | ||
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Fresh-Faced New User | Dawn of War 2 isn't even a strategy game. It's a game of tag where you run around capping resource points with the occasional skirmish where an Ork horde of 12 boyz fights against 6 Space Marines. There is little micro management, units move sluggishly and will automatically seek out cover. There is absolutely 0 macro-management, you have 1 production facility only. There is no information management. You cannot tell what 'strategy' your opponent is going for without seeing his entire army by which time you can't react or plan 1 step ahead. It has decent single player and nice graphics, everything else is abhorrent. If you seek multiplayer and a game with some semblance of strategy then DoW1 is a far better game that represents the epic scale of 40k quite well. The only thing DoW2 has over DoW1 is the fact that some people still play DoW2. DoW1 is dead. So in summary. DoW2 has decent single player but multiplayer is horrific. It's worth picking up in a sale. | |
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult | Dawn of War 2 is a wonderful campaign with a mediocre to bad skirmish mode; Dawn of War 1 is a pretty good skirmish mode with a halfway-decent campaign. Both are decent games. Also, avoid the Retribution expansion of Dawn of War 2, since it took the good part of the first game and Chaos Rising (the campaign) and tried to make it more like the bad part (the skirmish mode). | |
Victoria est autem vita. Stories at https://knightofthegrey.wordpress.com/ Game-related musings at https://thescenicdetour.wordpress.com/ Both updated irregularly | ||
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Screaming Shining Spear |
I respectfully disagree. First of all, choice of your faction. There are people who want to play something other than Space Marines. Second of all, various missions. I think Vanilla DoW2 had a longer long campaign. It doesn't matter, it was boring in the long run. Can't compare the stories because I didn't finish it. It felt like chore after a while. Missions and maps were copy-pasted. Reti handled this problem much better. The second part is more important IMHO. I did finish Retribution SM campaign (second playthrough, first was Eldar). In vanilla I couldn't stand the grinding. I have no comment about Chaos Rising because I didn't play that one. | |
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Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Nasty Nob |
Finally, somebody who plays RTS games speaks up. This thread is making me ill. And because no one has mentioned this mod yet (damn you!) http://www.moddb.com/mods/dawn-of-warhammer-40k-firestorm-over-kronus | |
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die. Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. | ||
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge |
Or get the Retribution expansion so you can play as the Imperial Guard, play multiplayer with whatever people are still around, and enjoy a number of new units. Retribution's campaign isn't as good as the ones in DoW2 or Chaos Rising, but the multiplayer for it was the absolute best when it had a community. I need to look into AI mods for it, since Retribution actually has some mods. | |
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut | Since I can't stand units spawning out of thin air like Dawn of War 1 and DoW 2 single player and play only skirmishes, I reccomend Retribution.
I would agree to some degree, as long as it was about vanilla game and battle size, skirmish is chasing one another then and single player is some strange rpgish concept that is simplified both vs tactical rpgs and strategies. Mod the Population cap and the tag game issue is gone, over 200 I guess you should have enough force to control the points and the positioning, units choice and movement start to be deciding factors, scouting makes more sense as well. 1 production facility is a bless, I don't know who got that idea to turn 40k strategy into Dune type rts but he was so wrong, this is the last place to play little constructor unless the thing you build has guns attached, imo.
Yeah especialy the 40k aspect of droping buildings from the sky that you need to field units. And as far as epic goes, go mod DoW 2 then DoW 1 suddenly appears small and limited. Then you can also mod DoW 1 to unlimited, the engine dies much faster vs 2nd game though. Anyway vanilla DoW 1 is small as well and far from 'epic' strategy.
Destructible environment. No press plus teleport a soldier stupidity. No buildings smaller than a tank bar the command center. Animation, gfx, effects. All great for suspension of disbelief boost, the less abstraction the better for video games so actual cover is better that 'you are in cover' marker, not to mention the former has a side which works as some improvement of a tactical element. Moving away from Dune, Command and Conquer and others, can't stress that enough.
Vent it all off and by the way tell me what proper RTS game is then, genuinely curious. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/09 17:23:00 From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its 'feature' list was first confirmed:
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Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Fresh-Faced New User |
This is actually the biggest problem with DoW2. Part of strategy is making decisions about what type of units and unit composition you will use. By having base building, you can force people to make decisions and suffer the consequences, good or bad. This leads onto information management. For example in Dawn of War 1, a Space Marine player could choose to go for a Machine Cult or a Sacred Relic in tier 2. The Machine cult obviously made vehicles and the Sacred Relic gave access to apothecaries, the librarian and enhancements for your basic troops. The information element about this comes down to making a decision to go for one of these choices based on what you know about your opponent and he knows about you. If I could deny my opponent the information about my Machine Cult existing I could churn out several vehicles and exploit a potential vulnerability because he lacks strong anti vehicle capabilities. Or maybe if I was being very tricky I could allow my opponent to scout my Machine Cult and while he's panicking and adding a bunch of anti vehicle to his army, I can quickly throw down a Sacred Relic and upgrade my Tactical Marines instead and exploit his lack of anti infantry. If my opponent was being really good he might scout both my Machine Cult and my Sacred Relic and he suddenly is at an advantage because I've gone and invested resources in a gamble hoping that he wouldn't find out and it hasn't payed off. I could write forever and give dozens of examples of how base building is core to strategy and information management. It's the biggest factor in DoW2 being a joke of a strategy game. That and the lack of real economic management and macro elements leave this game as I said earlier, a flashy game of tag with the occasional explosion. | |
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/11/09 18:37:23 | ||
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Wicked Warp Spider |
And you would be wrong in every single account, except in the specific case of a direct comparison between DOW1 and DOW2. Base building is by no means information management nor the foundation for tactical and strategic planning. Ground Control showed us this. I would even go so far as to say that base building is a detriment to tactical game play, unless the actual building process is the purpose of the game (Sim City, Anno games, etc). That said, I would never uphold the Dawn of War series to be tactical or strategic games, that they are only by association which humans love to do (birds do not all fly and sing gaily during spring just because they are birds). I still enjoyed them for what they were but I'd prefer it if they removed bases from the game completely and heroes as well (including special characters in the tabletop game.). By the way, if you call Relic games 'flashy games of tag' I'll call base building games 'flashy games of tank rushing', which is essentially what they have been as far as I can remember. (Tank is an ambiguous term used to describe a single or small set of units which have no easily exploitable weakness) | |
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut |
Unit composition is still there in DoW 2, it just skips (and simplifies ofc) the whole construction site thing before. Which for me is a plus, that it does not lead to information war is a different matter.
Yes I'm aware what is base building for in Dune type rtss, doesn't have much to do with tabletop game and this type of gameplay does not fit 40k only war mood, for me. Leave the whole espionage and construction thing out of battle like in Total War or at least streamline the unit production so I don't have to build actual buildings.
What would you say about Close Combat then.. no economic managment at all, not a single factory to build etc.. maybe a matter of terminology, DoW 2 might be a joke of strategy game but is quite decent as a tactical game (modded), which is exactly the direction it should follow. The core of the game should be, just as with TT, the table (battle) itself - manouvers, reading the opponent, positioning, target priority etc not list building (upgrade the requsition point or bulid the vehicle factory). Btw when you have 15 Predators, 10 various Dreadnoughts, units of Terminators, scouts, the second base in form of a Landraider, and multiple infantry units around the 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3 map you can try some major manouvers with that. The abilities and hero things don't have any significant impact anymore and scouts get useful to know what your enemy unit composition and positions. The core game of DoW 2 is good just the stupid limit in vanila ruins it. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yep exactly. It's strategic element which has hardly a place in a small scale battle fought in real time, it's a distraction and is mostly useless as it could be done with a simple tree. In Supreme Commander it almost works but it's also bigger scale. Dawn of War should be an RTS closer to Total War battle, you pick the army choose reserves and no production, resources and new units of any kind then, that would force developers to provide some real tactical play. | |
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/09 23:03:40 From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its 'feature' list was first confirmed:
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Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control | Yeah it is a distraction but it was popular way to make and balance games like this and that model is still being used for exampe Starcraft 2. I would really like someone to make a 40k or even a 30k pc game of the Epic Armageddon style kinda like how they did the old game Final Liberation. | |
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. >Raptors Lead the Way < | ||
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut |
Which kind of supports the point of removing the production from the game (at least the real time battle part, strategy map of the universe would be welcomed ofc), there are enough of base building rtss like Starcraft around and 40k is not a good place for such a game. Even in DoW 2 waiting for a unit to be produced, running back and forth to the base to replenish units or having to repair a tank instead of actualy battling makes me clench my teeth. I got used to it, just as I got used to bases in DoW 1 as it's still 40k game with SoB, Necrons and Dark Eldar included but that is also thanks to relic being brilliant developers, they are capable of making any type of game enjoyable I guess. Still all of this should be removed and Relic made the right step with DoW 2, imo. | |
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/09 23:56:00 From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its 'feature' list was first confirmed:
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Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer | I mostly can't wait until DOW3 comes out where they combine both the good elements of DOW and DOW2.. If you want DOW: As already said - it's a well done classic RTS with big battles, a bit of customization, and base building. DOW2: Squad based RTS with RPGish elements on your heros. Very similar to Warcraft 3, without the base building, but loads of customization and play styles per army (there are 6 in Retribution (plus Last Stand, which is hours and hours of fun). DOW3: Bases are coming back, battles will be huge again - even epic sized, completely customization armies, (down to the emblems and weapons - a giant leap towards the TT) heros, another graphics upgrade (the graphic upgrade between 1 and 2 is insane), and elements pulled from other Relic projects, like Company of Heroes.. so I'm guessing that Relic wants to make the game fun to play from just squad based skirmishes (DOW2), to a scale even beyond anything we've seen in a 40k game so far.. which means, DOW3 will be the best DOW ever. Period. | |
Meet Arkova. or discover the game you always wanted to: RoTC. | ||
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets |
If THQ doesn't fold over like a fallen leaf, DoW2 was supposed to last alot longer with patches and new dlc but with THQ's horrible mess with the tablet Relic lost alotta people as a result, it's also why Dark Millennium became single player. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/10 09:37:50 | ||
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
[DCM] The World Killer. | I enjoyed DoW 1 a lot more. I like base building, huge armies, and a large varity of armies to choose from. DoW 2 is still a good game, but I didn't enjoy it near as much as DoW 1. The Graphic Updates are nice, and being able to play as the Tyranids is great as well, but I just feel it lacks the epic scale, and fun of the first game. I doubt we will see a DoW 3 though. THQ's stock has fallen a massive amount, in a very short time. Some company is going to have to pick them up, or they are done, period. http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/06/thqs-stock-crashes-47-percent-as-it-faces-cash-crunch/ They are worth even less now, than when that article is published, last I read was about 8 million. | |
4000+ 6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience. Thousand Sons 4000+ | ||
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord | lol @ all these people who never figured out how to play DoW2. DoW2's biggest problem was always its learning curve. Lack of a good tutorial or explaination of the inner workings of the game leaves a lot of the players not knowing how to play beyond just 'capture dem points'. As a result, the community is basically dead. That said, you can get all three games for dirt cheap. As a WH40K fan, I'd drop the 20 bucks or so to get them all. | |
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Junior Officer with Laspistol |
I wish I was as good at video games as you. | |
Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female.. FAQs | ||
Subject: Re:Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife | I've enjoyed the online community better than DOW 1 | |
ChiliPowderKeg is forged from pure grade asinine and failure caissadoosj! FAILURE | ||
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge |
The language might not have been the best, but he has a point. DoW2 has a bit more of a learning curve where you need to understand when to retreat, where to position, and what to build. It's a bit more dynamic than DoW1's very rush-happy battles, and as a result is harder to learn. The skirmish AI doesn't put up a good enough fight to teach you the game well, and the multiplayer community is at the point where the only handful of people still playing are guys who've played since beta and will utterly and completely roll you. There's just not a terribly good way to learn the game, which is a bummer since a good game of DoW2 is as exhilarating and tense as a close deathmatch in a good shooter. I think there will be a Dawn of War 3 in the future. THQ hasn't completely folded, and we are getting a Company of Heroes 2 soon. If CoH2 sells well, we could see DoW3 sooner than we think. | |
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut |
It is a chase game though at vanila population cap level with the base thing at your back and too reliant on abilities imo, some of which you have to actualy aim btw i.e. bioplasma - not something that should have place in a tactical game. The result is way better than DoW 1 but it still is not the type of gameplay that appeals to me and still not the 40kTT feel, though much more than DoW 1. I'd say ingame option for 100, 200, 300 maybe up to 500 population cap games would take it to another level, it is a good game but some decisions were wrong, imo. Obviously GW doesn't want the video game to be too close to tabletop but probably doing the same but realtime could pass, no base just the map, your force, deployment, reserves, timer and objectives. I think it was a financial decision to make the first as a base building RTS and a second as narrative driven light real time tactics/ rpg mixup in SP. DoW 3 looks good, let's hope THQ survives or some other entity picks Relic, that CoH 2 engine is the best that could happen to 40k tactical game. Anyway OP, the game is cheap to the point of no brainer now and Relic deserves support, you want to play skirmishes get Retribution, want single player get all three and try yourself . It's not a game to skip if only to watch, the battles are a sight to behold. | |
From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its 'feature' list was first confirmed:
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Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut | I've always thought a 40k game would work well as a total war style game? | |
GW Rumour round up http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/617122.page | ||
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Wicked Warp Spider |
I agree. Or Ground Control 1. Anything without a static base. | |
Subject: Is Dawn of War 2 any good? | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut | I like the idea of a static base like Age of Empires or C&C but I can see how that would just become a C&C remake. Then again I think if 40k got the Total war treatment, I think it would be getting too close to the TT game for GW's liking. I personally would love it if they made a computer version of the TT game, with a few cool animations etc. as I'm on the opposite side of the world to the hobby at the minute and have no way of staying involved. | |
GW Rumour round up http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/617122.page |
Dawn Of War 2 Retribution Skirmish
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